Yes, it is good news about those veterans, but they weren't combat engineers, so unfortunately I don't believe it will help our long and arduous struggle. It's frustrating as hell...

Interested in any copies of General Orders (other than number 24) awarding the CIB to members of the 584th Engineer Battalion.

Attempting to substantiate Captain Verle McBride was awarded the CIB.

Robert

I would like to share the recent response by Army Awards Branch. The statements are contrary to WWII era guidelines, and history of action by the Army during WWII up to, and including 2003.

I have yet to prepare a letter for the Army because I lack the most important document. The response to the letter of General Truscott. “It is recommended that the language of WD Circular #186 be broaden or interpreted to permit the award of the Infantryman Combat Badge to members of the 36th Engineer Combat Regiment, otherwise qualified, and that such awards be made at the earliest practicable date in recognition of fine infantry service.

It would be a valuable item if someone could produce a copy.

Robert

Received a response by the National Archives today regarding the response to General Tuscott's recommendation.

"Unable to locate any documentation pertaining to this topic."

"We also examined records of the 36th Engineer Combat Group (formerly regiment) but were unable to locate 1944 general orders which might have indicated a decision regarding the Infantry Combat Badge."

Any suggestions?

Robert

John sent the letter below to me regarding the latest news on the CIB. If you've read anything on my site, you will know that this is a hot topic for those who didn't receive their Combat Infantry Badges. Some vets like my dad DID receive his and some combat engineers who were attached and used as infantry units didn't. Some even within the same units did, while others were denied. We are trying to rectify this injustice.

 

To read more about it, please visit these forum links:

 

CIB

 

CIB Links

 

Read this page too. Scroll down towards the bottom. You will see a letter from a congressman and the army.

 

Memories of David Wagner

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't know if you heard that the Defense Department has approved a combat badge for those other than Infantry . As of today it is authorized only for those in Iraq but my Congressman is trying to get it made retroactive. It will apply to Armor, Cavalry, Engineers, and Artillery who had the same exposure to combat as Infantry. Of course, as we know, some had more exposure. If you have contacs with a Congressman I think it might be a good idea to contact him for your father.

 

 

36 Engineers are rugged......John Fallon II. Capt. USA Ret.

I have been reading thru the posts regarding the CIB. So I am adding some comments:

After the European War was over, I was sent back from my combat engineer outfit to compute the points for members of B Company, 312th Engineers. At chow time I went thru the line at the Division Hqs. mess. All ranks were in this line. Every one of the servers was wearing a CIB, altho it was obvious that they hadn't had any real combat experience. I asked one of them if he had actually served in actual combat as an infantryman. His response was that everyone in Division Hqs. was awarded the CIB. I smiled and went on my way.

I had actually served in various combat situations. We had a volunteer Infantry Tiger Patrol accompany us when we were blowing up pill boxes; their job, to keep the pill boxes buttoned up if, in fact, they were occupied.

We had other assignments that had us out in front of the Infantry on numerous occasions (e.g. Mine Planting and Mine Removal). We had our share of Purple Hearts and KIAs. Near the end of the War we actually served as Infantrymen on a few occasions. Being Engineers we did not qualify for the CIB and accepted the fact that we were not in the Infantry, and the badge specifically is called the Combat INFANTRY Badge.

However, I do think that Combat Engineers should have had a badge similar to the CIB. I believe they created a

Combat Medic Badge, but I have no facts regarding that. --Bill Jasper

Briefly, I am involved with a number of WWII veterans/next of kin of same that served as infantrymen. They did not possess the MOS as an infantryman, which was not required until the 1960's.

I have documents revealing hundreds of combat veterans with a varity of MOS's involved in the Battles of the Bulge, Bataan, and Corregidor.

I don't think so since Commanding Generals, and their subordinates approved, authorized, and recommended the CIB.

I am attaching a letter sent to President Obama regarding the subject.

Robert

8547_W.doc

According to ABCMR, since Army Pamphlet 672-1 does not show the 36th Engineer Combat Regiment for Meritorious and Distinguished Service, they are not eligible for the CIB?

How about the 803rd Engineer Battalion? The unit was awarded (3) PUC's, and Company A was awarded the 4th PUC for their Combat Service.

Robert

-- attachment is not available --

-----------------THE C.I.B. SEEMS HAS MADE QUITE A STIR, M-1 I STILL STAND ON WHAT I SAID.

Ref: Memories of David Wagner

The letter addressed to Herman M. Shirley by Congressman Montgomery, dated 14 November 1988.

How has this letter been accepted all these years? It is completely contrary to the guidelines.

According to records revealing dates of combat...June, July1943 was obviously before War Department Circular 186, dated 11 May 1944 was valid. It does not apply to members of the 39th.

WD Circular 269, dated 27 October 1943 should have been referenced requiring the individual to serve as an infantryman, and particpate in combat with an enemy.

There is no doubt members of the 39th are eligible for the CIB as other combat veterans assigned to Engineer units which have received the badge.

Robert

Members of Company A, 803rd Engineers awarded the CIB.

Robert

Members of Company A, 803rd Engineers awarded the CIB.

 

 

Robert

Robert,

The letter is unsigned, undated, and carries no official letterhead. It would be very helpful if you could supply this information.

As someone who deals with non-infantry veterans wanting a CIB, I can attest to the controversy such requests raise among infantry veterans who earned the award. As Gen. Marshall said, it was the only special thing the infantryman could hold up and say was his, so I am not generally in favor of handing out the award to men who fought as infantrymen for a few days, or in some cases, weeks. For example, on my bulletin board is a photo of an infantryman who first entered combat in N. Africa, and was fortunate enought to have survived Sicily, Salerno, Anzio, S. France, Nordwind, and so on with only a couple of Purple Hearts to show for his troubles. He told me his CIB means more to him than anything else the army gave him, and I think he earned it fair and square.

I am equally certain there are special exceptions that should be honored by the Army, but sincerely hope they are kept to the bare minimum in order not to dilute Gen. Marshall's original intent.

Robert, How goes your campaign to obtain Purple Hearts for former POWs who became ill or were injured during captivity?

Jim

>The letter is unsigned, undated, and carries no official letterhead. It would be very helpful if you could supply this information.

It was discovered in the American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor site. Unable to locate author, but records reveal substantial number of veterans of the 17th Ord Co (Armored), 19th BG, 26th Cavalry, 27th BG, 192nd, 194th Tank Battalions, and 200th CA all participants of Bataan and Corregidor battles awarded the CIB.

Regarding Company A. 803rd Engineers. Their combat earned the unit the 4th Presidential Unit Citation. I will share a document pertaining the unit with signatures, letterhead, and date.

>How goes your campaign to obtain Purple Hearts for former POWs who became ill or were injured during captivity?

"Ill" or "injured" never been authorized. However, the former AAF POW's wounded in captivity, I have been quite successful. In fact I received an email today from a WWII veteran that will be awarded the Purple Heart at Wright-Patterson AFB in the near future.

It is unfortunate the U.S. Army continues to violate the UCMJ, and refuse to award the medal to former Army POW's with simular wounds incurred during captivity.

Robert

Looks like we lost some images you posted, Robert! Also, we can't get into the link you posted last, because it's private.

Looks like we lost some images you posted, Robert! Also, we can't get into the link you posted last, because it's private.