Look at this!

http://www.ww2talk.c...r-siegburg.html

Jean, it's your turn now!

Christoph

Ah, have been in contact with Fred for the last several years. A very knowledgeable guy.

Oh I see it's not about Fred's father, he only quotes an email, but who's? Jean's?

Christoph

Not sure to be honest.

You Guys are really with it! I recently did communicate with Fred. He sent me his family's story and wanted to know more of mine.

More to follow. I will be gone for a bit - and need to be there at 7AM.

I was quite surprised to see this post, to say the least.

Jean J

Christoph, you are so on top of everything and Marion too.

I found Fred's website and did ask the question you posted above. I think we corresponded 3 or 4 times. He shared his family's personal stories from the War era with me.

Now speaking of the Battle for Siegburg - maybe Harold's map of the Battle will arrive. He enjoyed your digging at Michaelsberg information as did Norton, and I copied your comments so the information was personalized from you. Norton does not use a computer and while I want to send him scads of things, it is so time consuming at this period of my life.

I want to share your Luft info Christoph with Bob's sons, but I do not want to overwhelm them any more than I have, at this moment. Brian said it could take awhile for him to get to scan some things to send me. Because of my telephone call to his brother Bob, and then to him, he pulled out the box of War things that they had on their Dad. It sounds like he has quite a bit to look through. I am so anxious to look at the 3 documents that appear to have been sent from the Lazarett.

More to follow,

Jean J

Hello! Sorry I have not been able to write - life is complex.

My husband just got the Battle Map that I got from Harold ready for me to include here:

www.jjworld.com/images/SiegburgBattle303InfantryMap.pdf

So many questions like did Dad's escape path and debriefing help determine the path the 303rd took into Siegburg. Maybe someday we will know. However, maybe we will never know.

That wonderful man, Kevin, the researcher at the Eisenhower Library, is going to check the records of the 86th Division and see if anything turns up on Dad and his escape in their records.

Happy Thanksgiving 2012! I know where Dad was for Thanksgiving 1944 - at Siegburg!

Jean J

This map is fantastic, I havn't seen such a map here in Siegburg before. The Agger crossings on a map - they were the reason I came to this wonderful forum and site to ask for help and information! Where does it come from? I should send it to Siegburg's archive, maybe thea are interested as well.

Christoph

Oh Christoph I am so happy! You always are finding such great treasures and pieces of information that would be unknown to me - it is astounding what you have done!!! Thank goodness you had a passion for the Agger crossings! And then that Marion had the passion to create and devote herself to this website in honor of her Dad and all the men! And that Walter Brinegar's family had the passion and love to learn more about the history of their Dad!

It is a great day to give Thanks!

Harold, who sent me the map, said he got this copy at the National Archives in College Park, Md. I believe he said it was mixed in with the 97th Division papers. I will verify this with Harold and also if you give it to the Siegburg Archive, if Harold would want you to give it with a mention of his name and his outfit as well as your name. It is incredible what you are doing for the history of Siegburg.

Now I wonder why is your curiosity so strong about the Agger crossings?

Oh, so much to do and want to research. I need to go to the National Archives in College Park because the implication is that there are a few more things on Siegburg there. I just put in a request for 4th Division Medical Battalion Detachment records. Not sure how much they have. Probably very little or if a lot, would need to see what is there.

I am curious about all of the bombing raids over or near Siegburg. Maybe the records of the deceased men that Dad buried will give me clues. I am putting in a request to the Archives in St. Louis to see if I can find info on a few of those poor men. And we know about those 3 men on that early report.

I hope Sister E. Koch is healthy. I want to focus back on putting together a package of photos of her with the other Sisters and Siegburg photos from the late 1980's and current time and also aerial photos of the Abbey. I need to review what questions I want to ask and the list was long from before. My curiosity is so strong - and I now know Harold spent the 1st night of the Battle in a home there in Sieburg. Wonder which house?

I better get going or there will be no turkey - like back in 1944 for most of the American soldiers. There is an Ernest Hemingway turkey story that year - he hung with the 4th Division. Dad, Thanksgiving of 1944, was #13012 at the Abbey in Siegburg, Germany.

Bye for now,

Jean J

Today, half a year after my request, I got an answer from Siegburg's archive.

Dr. Andrea Korte-Böger wrote that they have been searching a long time in the archive but did not find anything about an official camp in the rose garden. There might have been some barracks for POW or wounded soldiers, but this is only a guess. Also interrogations of contemporary witnesses were without result, they did not remember a camp there. But as she has been asked from several sides, also by Dr. Zenker, about this camp, she will keep this point in mind and still hopes to find something. 🙁

Christoph

Hi Christoph!

I had no success trying to communicate with Dr. A. K.-B. That is a great accomplishment you had. The fact she responded and then her answer, while not giving us information, has helped us narrow down that they have no obvious records.

Early on I had more success with the Tourist Office and an incredibly helpful person there, Jan Bitterburg. I have wanted to go back to my records and revisit the responses and send them to you. At the time what was significant to me was that Jan was able to determine that after my Dad's escape Siegburg was never bombed again and the inhabitants were somehow moved out.

She wrote:

I will translate the main points in your mail to our historian and hope she can answer some of your questions. From what I know about the war in Siegburg myself I can tell you the following:

The pictures you took at your first visit in the 1980s are of the Benedictine abbey of Siegburg. From May 1940 to March 18^th 1945 the abbey was used as a military hospital. I do not know if American prisoners were treated there. The POW camp your father was in, STALAG VI G, was actually situated in the city of Bonn, which is about 10 miles from Siegburg but it may well be that the wounded or sick POWs were send to Siegburg for treatment. During the December ‘44 bombings you mentioned the abbey had already been heavily damaged and there was another bomb attack on March 6^th. After that there were no more bombings so maybe your father was successful in convincing the Americans not to bomb the city anymore.

From March 9^th on Siegburg lay under constant fire by artillery for four weeks until by April 9^th the city was finally taken by US troops of the 97^th Infantry Division, 303^rd Regiment. 25% of Siegburg’s buildings were destroyed and another 32% heavily damaged. Compared to many other European cities Siegburg has been relatively lucky. The abbey were the hospital had been was almost completely destroyed though, as it had taken lots of artillery fire because the Americans suspected the German artillery fire was directed from this elevated position.

From 1947 to 1953 the Abbey was rebuilt and today it is inhabited by Benedictine monks again as you may have noticed during your last visit. What happened to the graves of the comrades your father had to bury I do not know. In Siegburg there are only a few minor monuments to WW2. On the biggest cemetery – Nordfriedhof - there is a monument to the fallen of the war. Beside that, there are a number of monuments related to the crimes of Nazi-Germany especially the Holocaust but that is all.

We do have a museum that covers the city’s history from prehistoric times until today and of course the Nazi Rule and the Second World War have their own department in this exhibition. There are no tours especially about the war.

It seems that because of the approaching US troops and the constant shelling the military hospital was evacuated shortly after your father was able to break free and shortly before he was able to contact the Americans. That is all I can write to you right now but I hope to get some more information with the help of Mrs Korte-Böger, the city’s archivist.

I want to say one more thing: Even if your father’s attempt to save the hospital from further bombings might have not been necessary anymore – we don’t know for sure – I am glad and thankful that men like him were willing to risk their lives to end the tyranny of Nazi-Germany in Europe. I hope he did know that most Germans today feel this way.

I will write you again when I have more information.

Best regards

Christoph, I do not recall who Dr. Zenker is?

And Thank you for sharing those posters! Very unusual to get see them.

I will look for Jan's other response and send it hopefully tomorrow.

Hello Jean!

Dr. Zenker is mentiones by Mary on page 2 of this thread.

Have you seen Marion's poster collection https://ww2combatengineers.composters.htm ?

Christoph

Christoph, What a Memory you have!

How on earth could you find 2 posters that were not in Marion's collection! And you are correct, I had not ever seen the collection. Pretty Awesome!

And the name Dr. Zenker had definitely slipped away from me. Thank you for sending me to correct place in the thread.

With all of our new knowledge I want to go study everything over again. Not sure when though. Saw the names Mary mentioned and want to look in the 6G document you sent for them.

I am on way out and when return will get the 2nd and I think last, Bitterberg response to you. You will see there is a document that maybe you do not know about mentioned. It was never sent to me and I did not want to be too pushy and figured one day I would get to Siegburg and find it - that was over 3 years ago! I am so curious to know if you know of it. But now we must wait I am out the door - well almost.

Jean J

No, its not my memory. I made the photos of the posters and then back home looked into Marion's pdf files which are sorted almost alphabetically. And I already knew some of Dr Zenker's other works before entering this forum

I'm curious what kind of document you'll have!

Christoph

Oh Christoph, I don't actually have the document. I was told about it by Jan Bitterberg but never got it. But it will be interesting for you to know that such a document exists or maybe you already know about it or even have it.

So here was the 2nd response from Jan. Incidentally I assumed Jan was a female and then I realized Jan may be was a male. So I have to be careful not to say he or she but just Jan. (I am very familiar with the he/she situation because I have my Dad's name. Whenever the phone rang, we had to ask 'do you want the male or the female Jean?' Then in a panic the people would hang up.)

Dear Jean,

I am very sorry for not answering earlier. The last few weeks at our office have been so busy that I simply could not spare enough time.

Attached you should find a clip of the map you have sent me with the location of the abbey marked by a red box.

Mrs. Korte-Böger, our historian, pointed me to an article concerning the closing of the field hospital. I have read it but there was no relevant information in regard to the case of your father. However, if you are interested I could try to scan the article and mail it to you.

It is difficult to find official records concerning the last days of the Nazi regime since at that time the enthusiasm for keeping those records was not as it used to be and everything was rather chaotic. I am afraid that for the moment we cannot tell you much more. I hope you have more success with the US army’s military records.

Please feel free to write again if you have more questions.

I wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year!

Jan Bitterberg

Tourist Information Siegburg

Europaplatz 3

53721 Siegburg

Tel.: 02241 / 96985-32

Fax: 02241 / 96985-31

Can you believe how helpful Jan was. I sent Jan the map I sent you. I never located the attachment but it was okay because I had an idea of where the Abbey was.

Jean J