Christoph, you must still be glowing over what you have done/discovered/accomplished and on and on!!!
I wonder if you will take over Mr. Niefer's life long mission!
It is interesting to note that Mr. Niefer has to know that there was a head of the camp who had 2 daughters but he does not mention them. Theo died too early, what a pity, and thus was not who Dad referred to. And who knows how the dichotomy of Theo's personality and beliefs would have been resolved as he had a chance to age and gain different levels of wisdom. Maybe they would have stayed the same - we will never know.
Now I wanted you to wait anxiously for results on the 2 French men like I have had to do. It is afternoon over there in Siegburg. Not much sleep for me between your info and this.
I wrote lots of random thoughts to Dan who found this information, and I will tell you more later about him. One of my many thoughts was: Now, if they really were French, there is a book The Long Voyage by Jorge Semprun that is a real representation of the life of a French prisoner. The reason I know that is because of a French woman whose husband had been through this. It is too long a story how I know this, but quickly, Marianne, was a secretary/translator for a gentleman, who was Chief of the liaison section to Eisenhower/ETOUSA. When you read it you will doubt that any Frenchman escaped those prisons and had the stamina to run and hide and cross rivers!
Christoph, the reason I mentioned these people is to show that while this book is a novel, I have notes how Marianne states the accuracy of it.
More responses that I sent included: I wonder what Camp they came from and where they crossed the Rhine? The only bridge that remained at that time was Remagen and that collapsed on the 17th.
Later I will tell you more random logic that makes me feel certain this is Dad!
Oh, and can't you see guys who have lost so much weight and can hardly drag themselves about, escaping. My Dad was big, tough, and strong. Before the War he did gymnastics and he also weight lifted. One photo that if I could attach shows him on the ground balancing 3 men and I have more of those type photos. From DDay Utah Beach to escaping from the Abbey he was still strong enough to consider the escape.
I will write more as soon as I can.
By the way, I think I will always add your name either with a slash or maybe a hypen to all of the storms we get!
And, with the possibility of Hurricane Isaac-Christoph on its way - I have many complications - and safety of Mom is first and that is tough. And Steve leaves for Washington tomorrow.
Au Voir,
Jean J
Won't I be disappointed if it is not Dad!
Now I can write for a few seconds. No news. The Wait Goes on.
But Christoph in my doubting if it is Dad I I am asking myself why would 2 French men be up in that area - I think of the French in Camps to the East, but you supplied incredible information and that is:
You said Mr. Neifer states that “behind the arch on the left was the carpenter, during the war it was a prison camp with wounded FRENCH soldiers, today the youth hostel. ….
But to continue with my wanderings, if these 2 French men who would have been well enough to escape, were physically that well, they would never have been kept at the Hospital or in the barracks at the Abbey. Space had to be at a premium especially in these bombed out conditions that you described.
And we know of the 71 prisoners that were found at Waldbrol only 2 were ambulatory, That would have been a heck of an accomplishment hiding and running/walking with a crutch or a limp or who knows what other malady and no food or .... Mr. Norton was grateful to have 1 crutch and he had lost so much weight and was weak.
So now I can not believe the 2 French men came from Siegburg/Michaelsburg Abbey but that is not to say they could not have come from another Camp/Hospital that was nearby. But from Dad’s stories the escape was not something he would not want to do again.
But I have a few more thoughts on this and I do believe it is Dad they were mentioning.
Now I must continue my wait but soon have to leave, ugh.
Jean J
I just reread what I last wrote, what I meant to say was "But from Dad's stories the escape was not something he would want to do again." I put in an extra not and in my rush never reread it.
Jean J
I am almost out the door, and no news, but Steve put Dad's photo so you can see it. Dad is on the bottom. Definitely not a man you want to mess with. And after Dad's capture, when the Nazi pulled off my Mom's black negligee that he had worn as a scarf around his neck throughout the War, Dad grabbed it to take it back. He got a mighty big slap on that one.
www.jjworld.com/images/JeanDasburgPhotoGymnistBalancing3Men.pdf
Now another clue for why I think the 2 men are Dad and Gidrie. Dad's father happened to be born in Paris but that line was from the Eifel in Germany/and Trier/and Lux/ or whomever these places belonged to during different times.
But Gidrie,he was from Louisiana. And I believe he was Creole and maybe I have written down or heard French Creole. He came to visit Mom and Dad in NY and somehow over the years they lost touch with one another. And Mom and Dad could not find him when they looked for him. Maybe I will get Gidrie's full name and see if I can track anyone down in his family.
But then again, maybe it is not Dad and Gidrie.
Much Later,
Jean J
Christoph, I came home to see if perchance there was any news that I could send you during your day.
And yes, I have news
It is not what I was hoping for or expecting.
Dan wrote back that he will send me the G-2 report but
he said he would do this on Monday when he goes
back to work.
Oh well, I must be patient and try not to think about it. I do not think that is possible though.
So back on the road again, and then to do Hurricane Isaac - Christopher preparation.
Bye for the moment,
Jean J
.
Jean, you are writing fast than I can read and answer...
Today I found another interesting document, a thesis of 119 pages about the German POW system 1939 – 1945:
http://ubm.opus.hbz-nrw.de/volltexte/2009/1884
On afirst look it is quiet abstract but contains also information concerning escapes and some statistic charts:
Jean, your dad was one of the first American prisoners of war in this area: on 1st October 1944, there were no (0) Americans in the camps in the military district VI of about 40,000 in other districts or in camps run by the German Air Force (Stalag Luft), but more than 106,000 of about 922,000 French soldiers! The young student Neifer wasn’t on the hill anymore when the first American arrived there as he served as acolyte in the abbey only until 1944 as he told me. And these numbers also show that there were many more French than American prisoners in the area... The thesis also explains that escaped prisoners of war were a big problem for the German authorities. Even if only 2 per cent of the prisoners escaped (or tried to), there would have been about 80,000 escaped enemy soldiers in Germany over the years!
This time I will not translate the complete text 
but one sentence:
Compared with the overall number only few prisoners of war in German custody have made an attempt to escape in WWII and scarcely anybody really reached his home or a safe country after a successful escape.
I'll have to read the whole text, that will give me a good background for further research 
Don't let the hurricane blow you away!
Christoph
Now another clue for why I think the 2 men are Dad and Gidrie. Dad's father happened to be born in Paris but that line was from the Eifel in Germany/and Trier/and Lux/ or whomever these places belonged to during different times.
Yes, it was clear that his family came from the Eifel as there is the village and the castle Dasburg, here on the same site as the one about Mr. Stolz:
Do you know what they did after their return? Did they serve in their old units until these returned home?
Christoph
I know you like reading, so here another link http://usacac.army.mil/cac2/cgsc/carl/eto/eto-107.pdf
about the Graves Registration Service, if you don't already know it. Perhaps also interesting for all who for axample adopt graves at Margraten...
Christoph
Christoph, I just came home to get ready, should it come, for Hurricane Isaac-Christoph and I had no idea that the real Hurricane Christoph had arrived at this site!
Oh my GOSH!
I can again have no way to THANK YOU enough!!!!! I will delve into all of this as soon as I can. I can hardly wait!
Oh if only my Dad was alive to finally get these answers and the information from you!
I know you will be asleep by the time I write again, if you are not already, so Good Night until tomorrow!
Jean J
Oh, and yes, I do know a little bit about what happened after their making it to American side in Europe and USA.
Gad, I know I have to go work while it is still light out, but should you still be awake I thought you would appreciate this. They were sent to 1 hospital, I think it was the first night, and the next morning my Dad saw everyone leaning over with their butts in the air and pants down. He realized they were in a hospital for VD. He got he and Gidrie out of there as fast as he could!
Good night again,
Jean J
Christoph, I still can not get over everything you have sent me! Wow!
This is real quick, but with your curiosity wanted to tell you that the service men only got discharged after they had a certain amount of points. I do not know exactly, and maybe in the past I read somewhere exactly what activity could be counted for to equal so many points. I don't think being a POW or escaping gave him extra points. But I think after being a POW you were not allowed to serve in that Theater again - the European Theater. (Could he have been sent to Japan if it was required, I do not know and will one day see what the rules were.) Those who had more points got out of Europe faster when the war was over, or supposed to.
In my Dad's case, his Regiment had been partially decimated in the Hurtgen Forest, and reassigned, and he never met up with his buddies again. Very Very Sad for him! Like at the Abbey, he never had closure, or could shoot the breeze with a few of them and know how it ended or talk about what they had been through together. I am lucky to have some letters from some of the men in his outfit after he was captured. The men loved him.
While it took a couple of months for him to get back to the USA, and fortunately he wrote Mom some VMails during that time, he still had to put in more time in the military back in the USA.
Bye for now,
Jean J
Don't faint - I have now spoken to the 2nd living POW that was both at Siegburg and Waldbrol. And yes, he knew Dad! Norton said this man will know your Dad - and he was right. Dad was the only one there and he was doing everything! Dad carried him in from the little cart he was transported in and carried him all the way up to the top floor! More to follow,
Jean J
I think I DID!!!!! 
:wub:
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter 'Monday' Poniedzialek
540th Combat Engineer - H&S Company
Marion you are so funny! I am honored to receive such an accolade. But those little guys should be turned towards you and Christoph!
I have some interesting things to share but I have to get a lot done before spending the day at Mom's so more will come at a future time.
Mr. Norton, like me, is in complete shock over what Christoph has uncovered!!! Just in the last couple of days what Christoph has uncovered on the history and the politics of the Abbey and then shared in a way that I could understand is incomprehensible in its magnitude!!! No one else could have started unraveling the mystery of the Abbey during the War except Christoph! There is actually no accessible history according to all of the departments and people that I wrote. Even the city historian could not help me.
Norton can't wait for me to send him Christoph's information. I told him about Theo M. Now that is a real story of mankind!
If I interpret it correctly, you have a man who is a devout Catholic and yet a Nazi at the same time. He is brokenhearted when the Father and Brothers are forced from the Abbey - and while words can describe the place - you must be there to feel what the place is like and marvel at its beauty. It dominates the surrounding area. And from almost everywhere you look you see it. And from below, you know that there is a Church high on that hill and men of the Catholic faith all living up there.
And yet Theo remains a Nazi. His son can never resolve this conflicting ideology. And then to have Theo's life extinguished because of War - reenforces the idea of conflict and for him ends with it. And the conflict goes on. All around at the Abbey, so many are trying to give life to everyone, the best they can. And that includes the German's and other nationalities that are there helping, which includes my Dad.
And Christoph there are not enough ways to Thank You for what you have done!!! You are the real miracle worker!!! And it is thanks to Marion that we know you!!!
I am going to go get ready for Hurricane Isaac - Christoph just in case we should get it or the winds and rain for it.
Jean J
All hail Christoph!!!
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter 'Monday' Poniedzialek
540th Combat Engineer - H&S Company
