Roque: Your first take on this was: " 3-7-1 Recon and my combat buddy j3rdinf, I will add my two cents worth.

You both are absolutely RIGHT. I think the C.I.B. has lost a lot of its

meaning. I got mine in '43 and after over 600 days combat with other medals

I cherish my C.I.B. as my most prized possesion. How about you Joe and

371 Recon? Of course we are from another era. Guys keep 'em straight.

This 83 yr. old+ said it. Roque J. Riojas Adios Amigos!!!! " What happened????

This is starting to remind me of the "gun grabbers" on the 2nd ammendment rights fight. Changing rules from what it was originally designed to mean. To most, it really means one must be a full time Infantryman in combat, under fire and reurning small arms fire as a usual happening. It also meant recieving $ 10.00 per month (in WW 2) which would show in ones pay record if qualified. Granted, some other non-infantry outfits did see some combat as is expected. But their main job and MOS at the time was not a Infantry MOS.. Their job mainly was not "to take and hold ground" as was a combat infantrymans job day to day was, but to act as support and possibly occasionally fighting which is expected of most soldiers in wartime. Next it may be the Transportation outfits who were straffed by planes and shot back. Or with the Combat Medics Badge, those in rear hospitals who were shelled or bombed will want the CMB. Where does it end. Also, living conditions for combat infantrymen were usually quite different from other branches. Dont cheapen the CIB, leave it for just what it was awarded for. COMBAT INFANTRYMEN. WHO DID THIS AS A DAY TO DAY JOB. NOT A OCCASIONAL HAPPENING.. By the way, as most platoons and squads were usually short of replacements we had many openings that could be transferred into if one wished to be a infantryman and get a CIB the hard way. So go ahead and "flame" me. It is just the way I feel about it. I guess I am going to catch hell now.

No one is here to FLAME anyone, so let's get that straight to all my SWEETHEARTS.

First off let me make something perfectly clear; no one is trying to CHANGE any rules. We are merely trying to reinforce the rules that were written during WWII, and applied to my guys then. We aren't trying to start something new. We are trying to reinforce a rule that already existed.

Second, many of my guys already WERE awarded the CIB. They include such men as my dad who was a 540th Engineer, and Captain John Fallon of the 36th Engineers, who has one too. They were awarded to them during wartime, not after! That is very important. Many other engineers who acted as infantry and fought in the front lines got them too. Many did not. That is where the fight lies.

Third, we aren't trying to get them for ALL ENGINEERS, but those engineers who did perform as infantry and fell under the EXISTING conditions required to get the CIB. So don't think we are trying to award them to the engineer who was typing up morning reports several miles behind the lines. That is not the case!

Fourth, as I stated a few posts back, I now have documents proving that those who were awarded the CIB's, did deserve them and it wasn't a fluke or accident. I have the document showing when and where they were awarded to a group of men in my dad's unit. It is an official 7th Army document from the National Archives.

Our point is simply this; those who fought alongside men like my dad and John, should have gotten them too. Those are the men we are fighting for, not just ANYONE. We are simply stating that there is an inconsistency, and THAT inconsistency must be rectified. There are engineers who fought on the frontlines alongside their buddies from the 3rd, 34th, 36th, and 45th Infantry regiments. Right next to those guys. Our engineer units were attached to them AS INFANTRY, and it even states it thusly in the reports from headquarters. These men were officially infantry as declared by the US Army. Many of the engineer units fought on the front lines as infantry in a continous battle for weeks and months at a time. Documented. That is our fight, that is our only fight. I have made that clear from day one.

Lastly, the documents that I found, in particular the Army Circular dated 1944, states that these men that I'm fighting for WERE qualified, so help me God before they pass on, I plan to give them the justice due to them.

Wow...I have to catch my breath before going on.

Marion...Those were words of passion.Keep writing like that and you will have a best seller.

Joe...the very last thing in the world I would want to do is see anything that would diminish the honor of that Badge. I am not the most eloquent of writers but this debate has been going on since 1944 as evidenced in the the following document-

Marion's note: Dec 2014

The document that Chris shared here is a letter from General Truscott to Commanding General, NATOUSA, APO US Army - July 30, 1944. From this document, you can see that even the general agreed with our arguments regarding engineers who were assigned and performed as infantry, including the 36th Engineers, who he specifically names in this document.

-- attachment is not available --

What John and I are trying to find is this:

War Department Circular #186, dated 11 May 1944. This is the document that was the basis for the distribution and awarding of the CIB's to the men listed on my National Archives document dated 13 October 1944. I will look for that today. If I am unable to find it, I will contact NARA and request a copy through mail. An attainable goal, so do not fret. It is available.

Here's one more.

-- attachment is not available --

Chris! Thank you for all your diligent research and assistance for our guys. Thank you for posting the letter from General Truscott. That ROCKS!

Thank you for you kind words. One thing no one can ever accuse me of is NOT doing my homework. I pride myself on taking the time to do serious research and to thoroughly read and re-read all the legalize contained within. I would like to think that I would have been a fine asset to an attorney's office, as I enjoy doing the background sniffing, scratching and digging!.

I think we make a fine team, and let me express that I enjoy working with you and men like John Fallon. It wouldn't be possible without all of us joining hands.

Essayons!

NEVER EVER WILL I TRADE WORDS WITH MRS. MARION CHARD !!!!!!!!!!! MARION I STILL SAY YOU ARE WITHOUT DOUBT THE VERY BEST, THIS OLD " Dogfacecombatinfantryman along with my buddy Joe,(3rdinf.)says it. Roque,(Rocky)

Another 6th corps moment...

I was uploading Truscotts reference to WD# 186 as at the same time you were posting.

Chris

Thank you Rocky. You are one of the men that truly keeps me inspired and reaching for the stars.

I always hoped that my drives and passions would allow me to do something that would truly contribute to something that would be worthwhile. I think I have found that something. It is an honor to be working alongside all these great men, and to try and help them anyway I can. I would sleep better at night knowing that I made at least one veteran a proud and happy man before he went to his final resting place in the big sky.

Chris: Yes, looks like we are posting simultaneously. I had not seen the second doc you posted, until just now. Those two docs should be included on the main site on the 36th's page. I will make sure to take care of that this weekend.

After conferring with Dr. Larry Roberts, Historian of the U. S. Army Engineer School, he gave me several suggestions for contacts. I sent this letter to the Military History Institute at Carlisle Barracks:

Dear Mr. Keough:

After conferring with Dr. Larry Roberts of the U.S. Army Engineer School, he suggested that I contact you in regards to a War Department Circular that I am trying to find.

I am trying to locate a copy of:

War Department Circular #186, dated 11, May 1944.

Thank you in advance. He also gave me a few more ideas in case the Military History Institute was unable to assist me.

Sincerely,

Marion Chard

Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek

540th Combat Engineer WWII

http://www.6thcorpscombatengineers.com

http://www.6thcorpsmusic.us

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Printed with permission from my engineer buddy:

Hi Marion,

Your letter about the CIB has excited me more than I can tell you. It

is very difficult for me to believe that just one person can untangle

this mess that I was involved with many years ago and struck out. This

was even with the help of the Head of the Congressional Armed Services

Committee. You are just a wonder!

I can understand how some of the infantrymen feel. However, I am sure

they do not fully understand what it is that combat engineers did and

went through. I can only speak about what we in the 39th had to do:

We were part of the strike force of Colonel Darby's Rangers in the

invasion of Sicily.

We relieved the 179th infantry regiment on the Beachhead and held their

position for about a week.

We also sent out patrols to capture German prisoners ( where we lost a

lot of men ).

They should know that if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and

looks like a duck, it most assuredly is a duck.

I am most anxious to hear when you find the May 1944 document and get

this thing settled.

I wish you and your family a very Happy Easter.

Dave

Three cheers for MY ARMY! Way to go. Just received this. Will be getting our copy of the circular that we've been desperately seeking!

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Caveats: NONE

Dear Ms. Chard:

We do have a copy of this circular, and I have forwarded your

inquiry and the circular to Dr. Arthur Bergeron of our Patron Services

Division for handling and response. This kind of inquiry is of a sort which

normally first handled by this office, although in view of past associations

with Dr. Roberts, I was pleased to be able to assist you in this matter.

David Keough

Collections Division

US Army Military

History Institute

DOES THIS MEAN MY C.I.B. IS REAL ?? Combat Engineers with DARBY'S RANGERS !!! Theywere with a good outfit, 80% of rangers were from the 34th. Roque

<span style='color:blue'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Courier'>I've been thinking of a quote by my Dad and I wanted to be sure it was exactly right.

He said,"For the Combat Engineers, it was mostly combat and a little engineering."</span></span></span>

I must agree. I heard my father say that same thing several times.

I wrote to my US Rep. Fred Upton(Michigan) back in 2005 a year after Dad passed away trying to get this very thing for him.

I figured he deserved it. So what if it said Engineers, it's what they did that counts.

Keep up the good work Marion. You've got farther the I have been able to.