Roque: Although I was not in Italy with the 3rd I.D., having joined them in France as

a replacement it seems like the 34th was left with the battle after the 3rd, 45th and 36th

I.D.'s left Italy. Also some other outfits I believe also left. Must have been quite a lonely feeling. Just curious what other I.D.'s were left with you guys ?

Here's a list from Steve's site regarding all the units that participated in the Italian campaign. Hope this helps.

http://members.aol.com/Custermen85/Units/AlliesOrg.htm

Here's another listing:

http://www.milhist.net/ordbat/mtounits.html

Here's a list from Steve's site regarding all the units that participated in the Italian campaign.

Marion gave you the link to my page on AOL. I've been moving everything over to custermen.com and updating the pages. This may have more info.

http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ArmyOrg/...g/AlliesOrg.htm

Before the veteran infantry divisions began to leave, more troops began to arrive just before the May Offensive and then after the fall of Rome. The 88th Infantry Division arrived around March 1944, followed by the 85th Infantry Division soon afterwards---both were the first all-draftee divisions.

Elements of the 91st Infantry Division arrived just before the fall of Rome in June 1944 and the remainder later.

The black 92nd Infantry Division was moved into the line in early fall and were hit by a German counter-offensive in December 1944. The Japanese-American 442nd Regimental Combat Team returned from a short tour in Southern France with the VI Corps and was assigned to boost up the 92nd Division. An anti-aircraft unit was re-organized into the 473rd Regimental Combat Team and also assigned to the 92nd Division.

By later winter and early spring 1945, more international troops arrived to join both the US 5th Army and British 8th Army; 6th South African Armoured Division & 1st Brazilian Division. In February, the US 10th Mountain Division arrived and participated in some raids during the winter. Just prior to the April Offensive, the Canadian Division was pulled out of Italy and sent to France/Germany (even though this is not what happens in "The English Patient").

Here is a graph I made to show the pull out of US troops in July/August 1944.

Steve

In 2 months, 9 complete division and the equivalent of 1 more were reassigned.

Source: Operations in Sicily and Italy - West Point Academy, 1947

Here's a list from Steve's site regarding all the units that participated in the Italian campaign.

Marion gave you the link to my page on AOL. I've been moving everything over to custermen.com and updating the pages. This may have more info.

 

http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ArmyOrg/...g/AlliesOrg.htm

 

Here is a graph I made to show the pull out of US troops in July/August 1944.

 

Steve

 

In 2 months, 9 complete division and the equivalent of 1 more were reassigned.

 

Source: Operations in Sicily and Italy - West Point Academy, 1947

What happend to the troops from August 1944 to May 1945. I know that

the Polish troops and I believe the Indian (Kurkha's ) were there. Anyone

see a KURKHA fighter? They were tall and with the turban headwear they

had made them taller.. Beside the rifles they carried they had a kniife

bigger than a Bowie knife and it was curved. If they drew it it had to have

blood on it even if it was their own, before they put it in the sash around

their waist. The 88th I. D. relieved the 34th AFTER the war ended and

took up the occupation. In Nov. 1945 the 34th RED BULL Divn.. was

sent home and NOONE was there to greet it. I was greeted by one man

I ran into just 3 blocks from home. That was my wellcoming commitee.

Roque

Roque: Although I was not in Italy with the 3rd I.D., having joined them in France as

a replacement it seems like the 34th was left with the battle after the 3rd, 45th and 36th

I.D.'s left Italy. Also some other outfits I believe also left. Must have been quite a lonely feeling. Just curious what other I.D.'s were left with you guys ?

Joe; I think that the 34th was a forgotten divn. Kinda like No. Africa was

a forgotten front. I guess we weren't recognized like other divns. like the

!st (Big Red One),3rd,36th,45th.1st Armored,10th Mtn. Joe I am happy

you didn't see action in Italy. Those mountains are kinda high. Roque

What happend to the troops from August 1944 to May 1945. I know that

the Polish troops and I believe the Indian (Kurkha's ) were there.

Yes, they were there with the British 8th Army. My explanation, above, was trying to stay focused on the American units and specifically the 5th Army. The Polish corps and the 10th British Corps was placed under the command of the US 5th Army during the early battles of Cassino. Afterwards, they were moved back to the 8th Army command.

The II Polish Corps was on the left wing of the British 8th Army at the Spring 1945 Offensive. They were the unit to the right of the 5th Army's right wing and they pushed up through Imola, cut Highway 9 and moved in to help take Bologna. Most books say the Poles liberated Bologna, but that was just so they could have some publicity. As you know, the US 34th RED BULLS reached Bologna first.

Steve

The "Gurkas" were short & were from Nepal or Tibet, not India. The tall turbaned fighters were "Sheiks" from Northern India, (Kashmier) There were several Colonial troop units in Italy. The "Ghoumers" Algeria. They were mean fellows. They wore long shrouds. Morrocco had many troops in Italy.

What happend to the troops from August 1944 to May 1945. I know that

the Polish troops and I believe the Indian (Kurkha's ) were there.

 

Yes, they were there with the British 8th Army. My explanation, above, was trying to stay focused on the American units and specifically the 5th Army. The Polish corps and the 10th British Corps was placed under the command of the US 5th Army during the early battles of Cassino. Afterwards, they were moved back to the 8th Army command.

 

The II Polish Corps was on the left wing of the British 8th Army at the Spring 1945 Offensive. They were the unit to the right of the 5th Army's right wing and they pushed up through Imola, cut Highway 9 and moved in to help take Bologna. Most books say the Poles liberated Bologna, but that was just so they could have some publicity. As you know, the US 34th RED BULLS reached Bologna first.

 

Steve

Thanks Steve. Yes we were there first.

First in Bologna was the 3rd Bn. 133rd Regt. Roque I was with the 135th

Thanks Steve. Yes we were there first.

I try to dig down to get to the truth. Sometimes it is hard to seperate the bragging rights from the Historical facts.

This is more evident in the Claim of the first unit to enter Rome. In this case there was no international politics. It was a quarrel between various US units. The 1st Special Service Forces, the 36th Division, the Recon unit of the 1st Armored Divisoin and the 88th Infantry Division all claim to the THE FIRST.

What makes it more difficult about Rome is that the city was bigger and had more avenues of approach. Of course there were probably some small armored units acting in independant actions or in support of the infantry. And there was some probing actions that pulled back.

My bet on that one is the 88th Infantry Division was the first into Rome. The 85th Infantry Division was right behind them and they marched past the Coliseum and on through the city.

Steve

Thanks Steve. Yes we were there first.

 

I try to dig down to get to the truth. Sometimes it is hard to seperate the bragging rights from the Historical facts.

 

This is more evident in the Claim of the first unit to enter Rome. In this case there was no international politics. It was a quarrel between various US units. The 1st Special Service Forces, the 36th Division, the Recon unit of the 1st Armored Divisoin and the 88th Infantry Division all claim to the THE FIRST.

What makes it more difficult about Rome is that the city was bigger and had more avenues of approach. Of course there were probably some small armored units acting in independant actions or in support of the infantry. And there was some probing actions that pulled back.

My bet on that one is the 88th Infantry Division was the first into Rome. The 85th Infantry Division was right behind them and they marched past the Coliseum and on through the city.

 

Steve

Steve; Do you have the book,"Dogfaces who smiled through tears"?

If not Maybe Marion can write the last two paragraphs of page 530!!!!!!!!!

There is nothing more authentic than this book.. Roque

To fully appreciate those two paragraphs you have to read the whole

chapter titled ROME AND POINTS NORTH.

Gen. Keys, II Corps Commander, wanted to clinch some honors for him and his Special Force, 3rd Div., 85th and 88th Divisions, as well as his support troops. He probably had the best solution when he assembled several jeeps and after loading them with representation from each of his units, launched them on an expedition to Rome.

Under the leadership of Capt. Taylor Radcliffe, 1st Special Service Force, a sixty man task force set out on a wild ride past, through and beyond armored vehicles spearheading the attack. According to Dan Kurzman's book, "the Race for Rome", Capt. Radcliffe and his composite Task Force from II Corps. accompanied by a jeepload of correspondents, purportedly entered Rome at 6:00 am June 4th, Kurzman's writings futher indicte a Capt. Pierre Planes, when his tank destryoers became entangled in a column on the highway, moved his armored behicles off the main road and paked them, then proceeded down unimporved roads in jeeps at 9:00 am his contingent, according to Kurzman, became the first Allied unit to reach the center of Rome.

...taken from "Dogfaces Who SMiled Through Tears" by Homer Ankrum, page 530.

The 135th and the 168th Regts. 34th I.D. WE were up in the hills south of Rome

looking at it and we thought we were the one's that were going in but our

comndr.wasn't looking for publicity so we just satthere and watched all

troops go into Rome. We 135th. took off down the hiway towards the Po

valley. I NEVER did see Rome so I don't know what it looks like. All I saw

was the Colloseum as we went by.

Top of page 533 read what it says about my outfit. 1st. Bn. 135th combat Regt.

Roque, pfc by act of Congress

The "Gurkas" were short & were from Nepal or Tibet, not India. The tall turbaned fighters were "Sheiks" from Northern India, (Kashmier) There were several Colonial troop units in Italy. The "Ghoumers" Algeria. They were mean fellows. They wore long shrouds. Morrocco had many troops in Italy.

Alkincer; I QUESS YOU ARE RIGHT. yOU PROBOBLY SAW MORE OF THEM

THEN IDID. All I saw was maybe four or five out on patrol. Roque