Today I’ve found another short but interesting text concerning the POW camp Hoffnungsthal in the book „I must be a part of this war – a German American’s fight against Hitler…“ by Patricia Kollander and John O’Sullivan:

"As Korf and his men made their way north toward Düsseldorf, they liberated POW Camp Hoffnungsthal. They found close to 800 prisoners, 177 of whom were Americans captured during the Battle of the Bulge. Though Americans had been generally treated well at German POW camps, Hoffnungsthal marked an exception to the rule. Korf was prepared for the fact that wartime shortages could account for the poor condition of the inmates. But what he saw went beyond shortages. He described conditions as “gruesome”. He learned that prisoners had been wantonly abused. An American pilot who had shattered both legs parachuting from his plane was forced to walk to the camp and denied medical treatment. They also found thirty-three cases of dysentery. The prisoners were evacuated immediately."

Very interesting the description of the pilot, you remember the one Walter B Brinegar has described in the timeline file?

Moreover, Lt. Col. Delnore’s daughter has published his father’s letters from the war in the book “Victor’s war”, parts are shown by google books, but hte letters are very personal and don't describe any military yction.

Regards,

Christoph

And another one:

The Pharos, see pages 16/17: Captain Burnett, another captured pilot in Hoffnungsth)al!

Christoph

Hello! I found this web site last night because I was Googling to see if there was anything on Siegburg, Germany. It has been awhile, ( I did not realize how long), since I was struggling to find out more on Siegburg and the German Military Hospital there. I was stunned to find this entry and one on a gentleman, Pfc Jim Norton of Sheridan, Wyoming, who was interviewed by the Casper Star Newspaper on May 29, 2011.

I have contacted the Newspaper Newsroom and one of the ladies who is working on the project of which Jim Norton was a part. I have asked them to contact Mr. Norton and see if he will allow me to speak to him and I would like to go meet him and talk to him in person.

My Dad was at the Siegburg German Military Hospital (Michaelsburg Abbey) from approximately mid October to approximately mid March.

While talking about the War was basically forbidden in my youth because of the nightmares and behavioral problems it caused in my Dad, as we both got older he was able to tell me stories which included his time in Siegburg. He was very frustrated that the records in St. Louis were burned.

My Dad was in the 4th Division, 22nd Regiment, and was a Medic. His nickname was Moose.

I am currently overwhelmed with the care of my Mom who is frail and requires round the clock care. I will write more later but wanted to introduce myself and say Thank You for making a web site like this available.

Jean D. Jacobson

Dear Jean:

Welcome to the forum. So glad you found us and I'm glad you have the ball rolling. Hope you heara from Mr. Norton!

You can get a copy of your dad's discharge papers (most likely) from his local VA (STATE). Simply contact them via phone, email or letter and if possible, they will send you a copy of his discharge papers. This is how I acquired my father's.

http://www2.va.gov/directory/guide/vetcenter_flsh.asp

Please see our RESEARCH section for further help and suggestions

Hello Walt's Daughter!

I do have discharge papers and I really appreciate your kindness to offer the suggestion.

At some point,I will look through all of the items you refer to as possible sources for material.

The Newspaper said it could take them a few days before they have a chance to contact Mr. Norton.

Also at some point, I would like to talk to W.B. Brinegar's daughter. Our conversation might cause her to remember other things about Siegburg. Mr. Norton might also have an idea as to where Brinegar might have gone after Siegburg.

I am curious about which historians she talked to in or about Siegburg. I had a little luck finding someone to help me, but little is about it.

After 67 years, I now am aware of 4 men by name that were actually at that German Hospital: Mr. Norton, Mr. Brinegar, Gidrie (from Louisiana somewhere), and my Dad. The correspondence my Dad sent back from the Hospital shows an address of Stalag 6 G and Siegburg. But the Hospital was in a totally different place than the Prison Camp Stalag 6G.

Thank You again,

Jean J

Hello Jean J

The hospital in Siegburg was hit by several bombs on 6 March 1945, many patients were kolled. It closed on 18 March 45 because of heavy artillery barrage, the patients got avacuated.

Stalag 6G had several outposts, the one mentioned in my first posting above is 11 km away from the abbey. If you'd publish the address on the letter, we could (perhaps) look which outpost it was and where to search on.

Christoph

Hello Christoph!

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! I have to figure out how to take the scanned document and send it on this site. How did you ever know so much about the hospital in Siegburg?

Now the latest news that I must share with you is that I decided not to wait for Mr. Norton to be notified by the Newspaper to see if I could call him. Instead I found his telephone number and called him. First I spoke to his wife and I knew then that I had found probably the one man that is still alive that was in that Siegburg Hospital. When Mr. Norton returned home he called me.

It is true Mr. Norton was there during the time my Dad was there! And believe it or not, he remembers my Dad!! It is so crazy after all of the years of hope and research! Mr. Norton even remembers my Dad was a big guy and "watched over all of us." He remembers more about him and also wondered what happened to him.

My Dad and another guy (Gidrie) told Norton and some others in the barracks that they were going to try to escape. Dad said he had a 45 pistol on him. Mr. Norton remembers wishing him luck!

Dad wanted to get to the Allied side to tell them not to bomb Siegburg because there were Allied prisoners at this German Military Hospital. My research has revealed that Siegburg was never bombed again after his debriefing with General Collins.

Mr. Norton noted that after Dad left, out of nowhere, they got their first delivery from the Red Cross! (That was one of the many things Dad accomplished in his debriefing.)

I plan to go visit Mr. Norton and his wife as soon as I can!

Do you happen to know more about Siegburg during the period of approximately Oct. 15th until the end of the War. The barracks where the Allied prisoners were located according to Mr. Norton were just below the Abbey.

I will work on scanning the document.

Jean Jacobson

That is awesome news. You must feel on top of the world! So very happy you were able to make this direct connection. I can appreciate that.

Hello Jean!

That's fantastic! Your dad's escape was succesful? Could you write more concerning his debriefing with general Collins?

If you'd live only 5 km away from the abbey you would also know or find out some details I guess

Thanks to your hint I found another hint to the camp below the abbey, but only that there was the camp behind barbwire and always guarded:

www.peter-zenker.de/documents/Zwangsarbeit_SU_Langfassung_300dpi.pdf (only in german, concerning forced labor in Siegburg and therefore not so easy to find when lookin for POW). The camp was in the "Rosengarten" (rose garden), but it wasn't a rose garden until 1958. There were several camps for forced laborers in Siegburg, but it seems as if some of them were also used as POW camps. I'm afraid that Siegburg's inhabitants were not curious enough to ask for details at that time...

Here: http://www.blattwelt.de/siegburger_blaetter/nr_8_bomben.pdf we have some information concerning the end of WWII in Siegburg, with an aerial photo of the city from march 45 (the hospital on the bottom right) - also only in german, sorry! Google can translate it via copy and paste, but the result is a bit odd.

If I find more, I'll write it here!

Christoph

Christoph, I wrote a really long response and then lost it because I left this site and wanted to test out the http address that I was including. I have never been part of a site like this before so I need to learn more. I am so irritated because I appear to have lost what I wrote and now do not have enough time to write it all again but I will try to write what I can.

Most importantly I want to tell you that your kindness in trying to help me is incredible!!

And I promised you

www.jjworld.com/images/POWLetter.tiff

I will let you know when and if I get any debriefing info.

Mr. Norton said there were 4 or 5 primitive barracks below the Abbey. The Americans were in 1 of them. He said there was a Guard. And your news on the March 8th bombing may fit into what my Dad said. The bombing bent the barbed wired fence and he and Gidrie both had the same thought - that they could escape. Dad said the Guard was asleep when they left.

I do not think these guys could have done much labor because they were wounded.

On our War Journey with my Dad he tried to figure out where the cemetery was located. The morgue was located inside the rounded door on the left as you go up the now driveway. Dad buried the bodies with their dogtags and made a map of the cemetery. He felt it was a long distance down that path to the cemetery. He gave that map to the Allies - maybe to General Collins himself.

There was a German Comandant of the Camp with 2 beautiful daughters. They lived in a large area in the basement.

A lady working for a German organization was able to find a Nun and someone else that was there during the War or knew about it. I will look through my notes and send the information to you.

Good night! And Thank You So much for trying to help me!

Jean J

Christoph,

I did hear from the Eisenhower Library and they do not have the General Collins diary/information. I will have to look elsewhere.

I am going to get one of Dad's original letters from Siegburg and have a better scan done of the address. I will compare that address to his others and if there are additional addresses I will send them to you.

I am going to try to visit Mr. Norton and thus I will pursue the Collins information and the Siegburg addresses when I return.

I heard the Michaelsburg Abbey was closed last year because of a lack of funding. I have not looked on the internet to see if it has reopened.

Also I have not yet done the translating of the documents that you sent. I will do so after my return.

Thank you so much!

I am so grateful that this web site exists.

Jean J

Jean,

the Benedictine friars were forced by the SS to leave the abbey in 1941 and came back already 1945, immediately after Siegburg's occupation by the 97th infantry division. They left the abbey last year because of personal and financial problems, but now another order has decided to come to Siegburg, the Discalced (shoeless) Carmelites.

I have written an e-mail to Siegburg's historical association concerning the POW camp, their chaimen are Siegburg's mayor and our county commissioner - I hope they know more details, if not, who else?

Christoph.

Christoph,

You are so kind to share with me that information. And I am so excited that maybe, just maybe, you will find out more information. It is really an almost impossible mission!

I did have a little success a couple of years ago when I contacted a few people in Siegburg. I will find that info and send it to you after my trip.

I know at least one of the Comandants daughters survived the War because she contacted my Dad after the War.

I also know that when Dad escaped and was debriefed he gave the map that he made of the Cemetery to the Allies. Dad put the dog tags of each of the men with them. He had the Polish prisoners, who were good with wood, make crosses. For the first few years after the War Dad got calls from the different families of the deceased men. The USA must have put his name on their death certificates. I have been unable to find the death certificates and the Map.

On our trip to Siegburg Dad tried to figure out where the Cemetery had been. There was no marker anywhere. We walked/drive the now paved path down from what he thought was the Morgue to where he thought the Cemetery would have been. Dad reminded us that the winter of 1944/1945 was brutal and it was a long cold walk to the Cemetery.

I am so anxious to talk to Mr. Norton. Mom is not doing great. Maybe I can leave on Wednesday.

Bye for the moment,

Jean J

This is incredible information! More than I was ever able to get from the NARA or from the military! Thank you all so very, very much. This is so very important to me to find his camp. I am travelling to Germany this summer so I hope to find more information in that trip. I did, however, find a note pad of my father's with the names of 4 men, 2 names I recognize - Wesley Strong (from Massachusetts) who was in the labor camp with him and gave him a letter to his famly as he didn't think he was going to make it out. He was shot across the back and had a terrible infection from it. But, he did make it but has sinced passed. Also, the other name I recognize is Dave Thick of Kansas who I know was in the fox hole with my father when they were captured on December 23, 1944. He went to a different camp as I believe he did not need medical attention but my father did. I did speak to SGT. Thick's children but they said their father never spoke of it, he had told his father-in-law about it when he first returned and would never speak about his experience after that one time.

The other two names I do not recognize are Austin Connon (spelling could be off) of Obrian, Florida and Mr. Dan Gibbs of Fort Worth, Texas.

Jean, I would be happy to talk to you about what I can remember. However, in a couple weeks I'm going to visit my oldest cousin (she is 31 years older than I am) and I'm hoping to learn her memories of anything my father may have said when he returned. If I do get more information I will happily share it.

Again, thank you all so much for helping. Christoph, if you learn any more from the Seigberg historical association I would love to here it. I have been told the NAZI's were excellent record keepers and I have to believe they have my father's name somewhere on some document indicating when and where he was, I just have to find it. I want to take my children and grandchildren on a pilgrimage to those places, I want them to know the strength he had and what he endured, what strength it took for us to be here.

Thank you so much!

Hi Jean, The information I received is below (I have a friend from Germany who corresponded and translated for me)

From: Wollenhaupt, Jeanette

Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 12:31 PM

To: Durst, Mary C.

Subject: Zwangsarbeit in Siegburg - Anfrage

He made a mistake.

Sprengmittelproduktionen, bei der Zwangsarbeiter und möglicherweise auch Kriegsgefangene eingesetzt waren, hat nur in Troisdorf bei der Firma Dynamit Nobel statt gefunden

Slaves and possible POW were used only in Troisdorf by “Dynamit Nobel”. In Siegburg.it happened during WW2.

Jeanette

From: Peter Zenker [mailto:dr.zenker@gmx.de]

Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:00 AM

To: Wollenhaupt, Jeanette

Subject: AW: Zwangsarbeit in Siegburg - Anfrage

Sehr geehrte Frau Wollenhaupt,

da ich meinen Computersystem auf Windows 7 umgestellt habe und dabei alle Programme neu installieren musste, kann ich auf meine Mail, die ich Ihnen sandte, nicht mehr zugreifen.

In der Angelegenheit habe ich noch einmal mit dem Archiv in Siegburg gesprochen. Und ich stellte fest, dass mir in meiner Antwort an Sie, ein Fehler unterlaufen ist. Die Sprengmittelproduktionen, bei der Zwangsarbeiter und möglicherweise auch Kriegsgefangene eingesetzt waren, hat nur in Troisdorf bei der Firma Dynamit Nobel statt gefunden. Fälschlicherweise erwähnte ich auch die Munitionsfabrik in Siegburg. Diese produzierte jedoch nur in der Zeit des Ersten Weltkrieges.

Mit freundlichem Gruß

Dr. Peter Zenker

Dr. Peter Zenker Tel. und Fax: +49(0)2241/95 96 86

Alte Poststraße 4 e-mail : dr.zenker@gmx.de

53721 Siegburg web : www.peter-zenker.de

Von: Wollenhaupt, Jeanette

Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. August 2010 18:53

An: dr.zenker@gmx.de

Cc: Durst, Mary C.

Betreff: [?? Probable Spam] Zwangsarbeit in Siegburg - Anfrage

Hallo Dr. Zenker:

Ich moechte gerne wissen, ob Ihr Dokument, Zwangsarbeit in Siegburg, auch in englischer Sprache erhaeltlich ist. Meine Bekannte in den Vereinigten Staaten benoetigt eine Uebersetzung, um die Suche nach ihrem Vater, ein amerikanischer Kriegsgefangener, fortzufuehren. Vielen Dank fuer Ihre Muehe!

Mit freundlichem Gruss,

Jeanette Wollenhaupt

From: Durst, Mary C.

Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 9:18 AM

To: Wollenhaupt, Jeanette

Subject: FW: Allied POW held at Neugengamme or satellite camp

Hi Jeanette,

I need your help…. As you know I’m researching my father’s POW experience and Dr. Moller has provided links below… the problem is the historian that researched the history of slave labour of Siegburg document is all in German! Do you know of any place on the web that will translate or do you see any place that says I can contact the author, Dr. Zinker, for a translation into English? Siegburg http://www.peter-zenker.de/documents/Zwangsarbeit_SU_Langfassung.pdf